Ask any of the Waco survivors about the FBI and the BATF… Janet Reno’s dog and pony show.Our government is not above murdering it’s own citizens to make the point we are peasants to be ground into the dirt when they feel the need.
I’ve often thought about how the Left is so against capital punishment, no matter how monstrous the murderer is, and yet Timothy McVeigh was put on the fast track to death.
Like so much of what goes on with out government, it smells like a dead fish that’s been sitting out for a week in August!
And then there’s the Ruby Ridge cluster foxtrot… big foul up there, they had survivors! Even sued and “won”, just had his wife and son whacked is all… and Lon Haroruchi was behind a rifle at both Waco and Ruby Ridge….no trial, Fed pension and all….
Somehow those who define themselves as the Best and Brightest do not seem to understand that when they demand “Turn in your guns or else”, most reasonable people conclude that they will get the “Or Else” whether they “turn in their guns” or not.
The recent book American Gun; the Story of the AR-15 got rave reviews from the NYT, Kirkus, and etc. as an “unbiased and objective” book on the history of the rifle, its military and civilian use, and its effect on “mass shootings”.
The authors said that they were looking at things objectively, and only suggested an “engineer’s solution”.
In fact, the book reeks of contempt for gun owners, considers the AR-15 to be “solely good for killing people”, and demands Draconian measures against the ownership of not just AR-15s but guns generally. They specifically cite Australia’s “peaceful” surrendering of civilian arms, when Aussies will tell you it was eighteen months of terror including trigger-happy government agents killing people just because they got the wrong house.
As James Bennet said of his firing from the New York Times (long read but worth it);
Israel began as an ideal socialist state designed by American and European Jews who thought socialism could be made to work.
The kibbutzim were classic communal farms. Much like Plymouth was for the first year of the Pilgrims’ settlement.
And like the Pilgrims, the kibbutzniks nearly starved.
Israel has gradually evolved to a mostly free-market economy but the legal structure is still largely socialist. And an armed citizenry “does not compute” to socialists.
clear ether
eon
December 16, 2023 at 11:03 am
Hardthought
The only positive coming from that horrible day is Israeli’s applying and being approved for owning weapons for defense.
They are going to get their 2nd Amendment as they’ve had their 2A moment and it was terrible.
December 16, 2023 at 4:22 pm
GeoBigPCB
Visited Israel and toured a kibbutz last November. The tour was conducted by one of the original socialist Americans who left upstate NY to ‘prove’ the communal concept. Says it worked for many years, everyone doing their job and each receiving the same pay. Their children, however, don’t like the idea of turning over their kids for most all of the day, eating communal meals, living in modest cookie-cutter apartments, and working for the ‘borg’. He conceded that their days as a functioning communist society was ending. You can’t keep them on the farm when they’ve seen the big (internet) city.
December 16, 2023 at 11:54 am
John D. Egbert
I believe that, in the case of The War of Northern Aggression, the South was the victim. It was the North, desiring token hold of its cheap textile sources for their northern clothing mills, that got the ball rolling with onerous taxes and export bans. They also fired the first shot – – at Ft. Sumpter.
Even the South knew, albeit carefully concealed and ignored, that in 1860 slavery as an institution was dead; just hadn’t fallen over yet. It was killed by three white guys: Eli Whitney, Cyrus McCormick and John Deere. They made slavery economically unfeasible. Left alone, slavery would have withered, and died a natural death, before the end of the century – – and without the “race problems” we have today.
Damn thumbs. . . S/B “. . . desiring to keep hold . . .”
December 16, 2023 at 12:06 pm
Spin Drift
Eon:
The first Civil War was not fought over slavery but the economic tariff war placed on the exports of the southern states. The North tariffed the exports of agrarian goods abroad and tariffed the imports to save the northern industrial complex. The North benefited from the tariff income to a greater extent than the south (sort of how the population dense centers of today wag the dog). The south had a problem with this arrangement and seceded from the Union as was there right. The North was not about to let the tariff windfall just walk a way.
As to slavery, I find it ironic that the slaves of Egypt were the main drivers of the slaves of America. The Tribe ran the slave ships, bought the cargo, and were the majority buyers and slave holders. As a whole slavery is a very expensive labor solution. It does not promote the efficiency of resource allocation as being forced to work for another will not overcome the effort or labors of one working for oneself.
Lincoln put slavery into the National discourse by issuing the Emancipation Declaration after Gettysburg. This only freed the slaves in states that had seceded not in the slave states that were still in the Union. The average northerner did not care about the war and did not want to die in the southern battle fields. The draft riots are a testament to this.
All of the above should be taught in a basic US History class but alas the winners write the history and control the narrative. That has now been molded to be all white men bad and must pay for their the sins of their fore bearers. See Obama for the lead on this concept.
All true. But don’t forget that the Southern “planters” wanted war because the cotton trade was a “one trick pony” that relied on slave labor to make it marginally profitable.
Without slave labor, the planters would have been SOL. They continued raising cotton with slave labor not because “that was where the money was” (to borrow a phrase from Willie Sutton) but because “My granddaddy was a planter, my daddy was a planter, I’m a planter, and by God my son’s going to be a planter”. In short, they were demanding war in the name of ideology.
But they weren’t fighting it for the most part. It’s true that
younger sons of the gentry made up the bulk of the officer class of the CSA cavalry because as William B. Edwards says in Civil War Guns (Stackpole 1962- free online at archive.org), they had had little to do in their formative years but learn to ride and shoot.
But their fathers and older brothers sat on the sidelines exhorting the “lower classes” to fight for them, as in the song “Poor White Boys” (1862);
Poor White Boys
c. 1862
(sung to the tune of “Bonny Blue Flag”)
We are a band of planters, unfaithful to our wives,
Fighting for our property, but frightened for our lives.
So when our rights are threatened, our cry goes near and far:
Send us a million poor white boys to fight our wicked war!
Hurrah! Hurrah! For planter’s rights Hurrah!
Hurrah for the poor white boys who fight our rich man’s war!
Ye men of valor gather ’round, and help us in our plight.
Old Abe’s freed the dark-skinned girls with whom we spend the night.
And just because ye have no slaves, we’ll give you one or two,
As long as you help us in our fight against the Yankee crew.
Hurrah! Hurrah! For planter’s rights Hurrah!
Hurrah for the poor white boys who fight our rich man’s war!
Of course we know that you won’t fight for rich men’s property,
You hardly have enough to eat to feed your family.
So ‘state’s rights’ is the banner we choose to lead your ranks,
And now we won’t repay our loans to all those Yankee banks!
Hurrah! Hurrah! We’ll profit more, Hurrah!
Hurrah for the poor white boys who fight our rich man’s war!
But when the long roll beckons and you all fall into line,
Of all the many faces there you surely won’t see mine.
I’ve business to attend to, and I’m certainly no fool.
I’ll stay right here and hide behind the ‘Twenty N****r Rule.’
Hurrah! Hurrah! For planter’s rights Hurrah!
Hurrah for the poor white boys who fight our rich man’s war!
We’ve mountain loads of cotton that’s already been picked,
Bought by the Confed’racy, unable to be shipped.
Jeff Davis says to burn it, but the Yanks’ll buy we’re told.
We’ll compromise our principles, IF THEY PAY IN GOLD!
Hurrah! Hurrah! We’ll profit more, Hurrah!
Hurrah for the poor white boys who fight our rich man’s war!
And when the war is over, and our independence won,
We’ll host a celebration for those left alive to come.
There’ll be food and drink aplenty and our daughters there to charm,
Engaged to other planter’s sons WHO NEVER LEFT THE FARM!
Hurrah! Hurrah! For planter’s rights Hurrah!
Hurrah for the poor white boys who fight our rich man’s war!
Hurrah! Hurrah! For planter’s rights Hurrah!
Hurrah for the poor white boys who fight our rich man’s war!
That was the reality of the “Lost Cause”.
And yes, they were Democrats to a “man”.
I think it’s time we stopped romanticizing the Confederacy. Just IMPO.
cheers
eon
December 16, 2023 at 9:12 pm
ULTRA-MAGA TOP DAWG JTC
All total BS of course, ignoring the truth of the economics (can you say ports?) for the attack against a Constitutional sovereign nation. Money and control, control and money.
Certainly effective though with so many willingly and anxiously consuming the koolaid, even those who are very smart in their pursuit and acceptance of history, but who so often fail to apply contemporary logic and reason to the teachings they have been force-fed their whole lives…even embracing extended nonsensical ditties as their truth to take the place of any real life experience of their own.
Worse is the abject failure to grok that D’s and R’s were meaningless but leftism (socialism) is the constant and the exact parallel of CW V1 to what is coming in V2 if it is forced upon us which it sure looks like it will be…could there be any more direct comparison of the radical leftism of then to what we are facing now…talk about a sickening sense of deja vu.
And worst of all is the inculcated hatred that causes one to insert such an essentially irrelevant blurb for no reason except to state erroneous and divisive one-sided “history”…nothing romantic at all about that hard truth in spite of any IMPO’s.
December 16, 2023 at 12:33 pm
JTC
So, the fight for freedom and to be left alone as the First Rino plotted to kill them while encouraging his slaveholding yankee brethren if they would just give him money, and the unfathomable evil in today’s DC and murderous evil of fucking muzbro in Gaza are all analogous and the same? Fuck any idiot who would think let alone write such a thing.
“Just as the slave owners of the South considered launching a war to make slavery the law of the land everywhere was a “reasonable” position.”
Thank you to John and Spin for so eloquently putting the lie to what was so gratuitously thrown in there out of pure ignorance and hatred, before I saw it and said what I said. But I stand by mine too.
December 16, 2023 at 10:39 am
David
Years ago their civilians carried weapons, but they were issued and controlled by the gov. Gov gives and the gov takes away.
25 Comments
Ask any of the Waco survivors about the FBI and the BATF… Janet Reno’s dog and pony show.Our government is not above murdering it’s own citizens to make the point we are peasants to be ground into the dirt when they feel the need.
Oh, wait! You can’t. They didn’t leave any survivors.
That’s not true. There are survivors. They’ve given interviews.
Ask the parents of the murdered children in Oklahoma City while you’re at it. Another ring of the same circus.
I’ve often thought about how the Left is so against capital punishment, no matter how monstrous the murderer is, and yet Timothy McVeigh was put on the fast track to death.
Like so much of what goes on with out government, it smells like a dead fish that’s been sitting out for a week in August!
Or Elian Gonzales
And then there’s the Ruby Ridge cluster foxtrot… big foul up there, they had survivors! Even sued and “won”, just had his wife and son whacked is all… and Lon Haroruchi was behind a rifle at both Waco and Ruby Ridge….no trial, Fed pension and all….
Somehow those who define themselves as the Best and Brightest do not seem to understand that when they demand “Turn in your guns or else”, most reasonable people conclude that they will get the “Or Else” whether they “turn in their guns” or not.
The recent book American Gun; the Story of the AR-15 got rave reviews from the NYT, Kirkus, and etc. as an “unbiased and objective” book on the history of the rifle, its military and civilian use, and its effect on “mass shootings”.
The authors said that they were looking at things objectively, and only suggested an “engineer’s solution”.
In fact, the book reeks of contempt for gun owners, considers the AR-15 to be “solely good for killing people”, and demands Draconian measures against the ownership of not just AR-15s but guns generally. They specifically cite Australia’s “peaceful” surrendering of civilian arms, when Aussies will tell you it was eighteen months of terror including trigger-happy government agents killing people just because they got the wrong house.
As James Bennet said of his firing from the New York Times (long read but worth it);
https://www.economist.com/1843/2023/12/14/when-the-new-york-times-lost-its-way
These are people who only talk to each other about “their” America. The only problem is that “their America” bears no resemblance to the real thing.
Yes, they consider wanting to kill and eat deplorable peasants who dare to own firearms a “reasonable” position.
Just as the slave owners of the South considered launching a war to make slavery the law of the land everywhere was a “reasonable” position.
Or Hamas considering the extermination of every Jew and Gentile on Earth a “reasonable” position.
These are people who cannot be reasoned with.
clear ether
eon
Why were the Israeli civilians unarmed? Just wondering.
Israel began as an ideal socialist state designed by American and European Jews who thought socialism could be made to work.
The kibbutzim were classic communal farms. Much like Plymouth was for the first year of the Pilgrims’ settlement.
And like the Pilgrims, the kibbutzniks nearly starved.
Israel has gradually evolved to a mostly free-market economy but the legal structure is still largely socialist. And an armed citizenry “does not compute” to socialists.
clear ether
eon
The only positive coming from that horrible day is Israeli’s applying and being approved for owning weapons for defense.
They are going to get their 2nd Amendment as they’ve had their 2A moment and it was terrible.
Visited Israel and toured a kibbutz last November. The tour was conducted by one of the original socialist Americans who left upstate NY to ‘prove’ the communal concept. Says it worked for many years, everyone doing their job and each receiving the same pay. Their children, however, don’t like the idea of turning over their kids for most all of the day, eating communal meals, living in modest cookie-cutter apartments, and working for the ‘borg’. He conceded that their days as a functioning communist society was ending. You can’t keep them on the farm when they’ve seen the big (internet) city.
I believe that, in the case of The War of Northern Aggression, the South was the victim. It was the North, desiring token hold of its cheap textile sources for their northern clothing mills, that got the ball rolling with onerous taxes and export bans. They also fired the first shot – – at Ft. Sumpter.
Even the South knew, albeit carefully concealed and ignored, that in 1860 slavery as an institution was dead; just hadn’t fallen over yet. It was killed by three white guys: Eli Whitney, Cyrus McCormick and John Deere. They made slavery economically unfeasible. Left alone, slavery would have withered, and died a natural death, before the end of the century – – and without the “race problems” we have today.
Damn thumbs. . . S/B “. . . desiring to keep hold . . .”
Eon:
The first Civil War was not fought over slavery but the economic tariff war placed on the exports of the southern states. The North tariffed the exports of agrarian goods abroad and tariffed the imports to save the northern industrial complex. The North benefited from the tariff income to a greater extent than the south (sort of how the population dense centers of today wag the dog). The south had a problem with this arrangement and seceded from the Union as was there right. The North was not about to let the tariff windfall just walk a way.
As to slavery, I find it ironic that the slaves of Egypt were the main drivers of the slaves of America. The Tribe ran the slave ships, bought the cargo, and were the majority buyers and slave holders. As a whole slavery is a very expensive labor solution. It does not promote the efficiency of resource allocation as being forced to work for another will not overcome the effort or labors of one working for oneself.
Lincoln put slavery into the National discourse by issuing the Emancipation Declaration after Gettysburg. This only freed the slaves in states that had seceded not in the slave states that were still in the Union. The average northerner did not care about the war and did not want to die in the southern battle fields. The draft riots are a testament to this.
All of the above should be taught in a basic US History class but alas the winners write the history and control the narrative. That has now been molded to be all white men bad and must pay for their the sins of their fore bearers. See Obama for the lead on this concept.
Spin Drift
All true. But don’t forget that the Southern “planters” wanted war because the cotton trade was a “one trick pony” that relied on slave labor to make it marginally profitable.
Without slave labor, the planters would have been SOL. They continued raising cotton with slave labor not because “that was where the money was” (to borrow a phrase from Willie Sutton) but because “My granddaddy was a planter, my daddy was a planter, I’m a planter, and by God my son’s going to be a planter”. In short, they were demanding war in the name of ideology.
But they weren’t fighting it for the most part. It’s true that
younger sons of the gentry made up the bulk of the officer class of the CSA cavalry because as William B. Edwards says in Civil War Guns (Stackpole 1962- free online at archive.org), they had had little to do in their formative years but learn to ride and shoot.
But their fathers and older brothers sat on the sidelines exhorting the “lower classes” to fight for them, as in the song “Poor White Boys” (1862);
That was the reality of the “Lost Cause”.
And yes, they were Democrats to a “man”.
I think it’s time we stopped romanticizing the Confederacy. Just IMPO.
cheers
eon
All total BS of course, ignoring the truth of the economics (can you say ports?) for the attack against a Constitutional sovereign nation. Money and control, control and money.
Certainly effective though with so many willingly and anxiously consuming the koolaid, even those who are very smart in their pursuit and acceptance of history, but who so often fail to apply contemporary logic and reason to the teachings they have been force-fed their whole lives…even embracing extended nonsensical ditties as their truth to take the place of any real life experience of their own.
Worse is the abject failure to grok that D’s and R’s were meaningless but leftism (socialism) is the constant and the exact parallel of CW V1 to what is coming in V2 if it is forced upon us which it sure looks like it will be…could there be any more direct comparison of the radical leftism of then to what we are facing now…talk about a sickening sense of deja vu.
And worst of all is the inculcated hatred that causes one to insert such an essentially irrelevant blurb for no reason except to state erroneous and divisive one-sided “history”…nothing romantic at all about that hard truth in spite of any IMPO’s.
So, the fight for freedom and to be left alone as the First Rino plotted to kill them while encouraging his slaveholding yankee brethren if they would just give him money, and the unfathomable evil in today’s DC and murderous evil of fucking muzbro in Gaza are all analogous and the same? Fuck any idiot who would think let alone write such a thing.
“Just as the slave owners of the South considered launching a war to make slavery the law of the land everywhere was a “reasonable” position.”
Thank you to John and Spin for so eloquently putting the lie to what was so gratuitously thrown in there out of pure ignorance and hatred, before I saw it and said what I said. But I stand by mine too.
Years ago their civilians carried weapons, but they were issued and controlled by the gov. Gov gives and the gov takes away.
Interesting . . . just noticed the time hacks on replies are in Atlantic Standard Time. When did Florida move off-coast?
Worth repeating: Dad, why do they wanna take away our guns? Well, son, coz they wanna kill us… and don’t wanna get shot.
They know people will not willingly get in the boxcars.
“They’ve got the goods” – Dr. Jan Halper-Hayes
https://www.daybydaycartoon.com/comic/off-script/