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McCan’t gets his way, it’ll be “here” invading Russia.
More interventionism, yeah that’s the ticket.
And this time, let’s intervene against the only partner entity on earth with the power and inclination to defeat the single biggest threat on it.
Never in my life time did I think I’d see the peaceniks attempting to start an all out war with the OTHER superpower.
They spent eight years ignoring Putin’s project of rebuilding Russia’s empire because they knew in their hearts that as an ex-KGB officer he just had to be true-believing Communist, and was doing it to rebuild the Glorious Soviet Union, defeat Evil Capitalist America, and help them build the Radiant Future, just like it says in Marx.
But now it’s finally dawned on them that Putin isn’t any kind of Communist. He’s a Russian nationalist, more like Kropotkin than Ulyanov (Lenin).
And they just can’t tolerate that. It’s “reactionary” and a “betrayal of the(ir) Revolution”.
The One especially can’t tolerate it. Hence this effort to kill off Putin and Trump both with one “stone”.
And as for Putin, all he gives a damn about is Russia itself. Not “greater Russia”, not a “Union of Any Kind Of Republics, Socialist Or Otherwise”- just Russia.
He’s thrown the “progressives'” brand of “internationalism” out the window. He isn’t in Syria to “Build World Socialism”- he’s in there because it’s on his southern border and he doesn’t want its Islamist insanity spreading north.
He’s already had enough of that from the Chechens, which is why he invaded Ukraine. The Ukraine government couldn’t, or wouldn’t, stop the flow of drugs and white slaves out and arms in though their territory. The slaving and drug-running paid for the arms for their part of the Jihad.
Half of Ukraine wanted Russia back in to deal with kit. The other half didn’t. The first half won.
Georgia was the same. Chechens, slaves, drugs, arms. And a corrupt government that didn’t care as long as they got their cut.
There were no good guys there. There probably still aren’t any.
Putin started out trying to be a Russian Mussolini, rebuilding an empire that was dead and gone before even Stalin was born. (It died in the Crimea in 1858 and in Turkey in 1878.)
But unlike Il Duce, I think he’s smartened up a bit. Now he’s just trying to keep the Islamists off his turf by taking the battle to them on theirs.
Well, the old saying is that the best place to defend your country is on the enemy’s own real estate.
Of course, that assumes you intend to destroy the enemy, win, and go home. “Nation building” isn’t part of the equation. Rome didn’t try to “rebuild” Carthage; they just razed it, sowed it with salt, and left.
I think that’s what Putin has in mind in Syria and elsewhere. Unlike The One, he’s not a primitivist mystic with an atavistic love of all things “Eastern” and “Enlightened”. He sees them for what they are; primitive, savage cultures and belief systems which held humanity back for centuries and now want to plunge it into an eternal dark age.
He doesn’t give a damn what they do to themselves. He just wants them to stay the hell out of Russia.
Sometimes the answer is too obvious to see.
DAMN eon, you’re about one serious dead nuts on thinker!
Add, the Russian naval base at Aleppo. Better than operating from the Black Sea.
This is extremely well said.
This is why I hang out here.
Now. What do we DO about it?
And the best answer I have is, there isn’t a whole hell of a lot we can do about it, one way or the other.
obama had the answer to Romney….”The 80’s are calling….they want their foreign policy back”….yes indeed, ol’ big ears was wrong on that call….what’s scary is the fact that enough Americans bought into it to re-elect the son of a bitch….
Ironically, he had it absolutely correct — and didn’t even realize it. The foreign policy of Ronaldus Magnus was the right approach then, is now, and will be in the future. DJT could do much worse than emulating . . .
Damn, that was good.
Aw shucks. Thanks, Boss.
(Blushes, scrapes sneaker toe on gravel like Spanky…)
I’ll take issue with some of eon’s thinking.
Russia invaded Georgia to prevent them from selling oil and gas to Europe.
Russia invaded the Crimea part of the Ukraine because it wanted control of the former USSR naval base as Sevastopol. Russia loves naval bases that don’t ice over in winter. And the not-Russian-puppet government raised the rent.
Russia invaded the rest of the Ukraine for the same reason the USSR invaded Afghanistan: the puppet broke its strings and Russia is paranoid.
Russia intervened in Syria because 1) the Assad government would spend Syrian oil money buying stuff from Russia to rebuild, and 2) The Russians have a naval base along the Syrian coast that they want to get back to. Russia always wanted a naval base on the Mediterranean.
I gets edumacated here, good stuff.
I am continuously amazed by the brainpower of your readership
Yes, very well done.
In addition, as my favorite analyst KT McFarland says, the problem with Obama is that he tries to be a tough guy in public with Putin, and sucks at behind the scenes diplomacy. Then Putin calls his bluff and Obama looks like the weak reed we all know his is.
Whereas Ronald Magnus Reaganus, the great Commie slayer, was able to conduct excellent public diplomacy with ol’ Gorby while plotting the successful demise of the Soviet Union.
That’s the difference between a petulant man-child community organizer and a tough as nails negotiator and great American.
Putin is all about Russia, as you point out. As long as El Trumpo understands that, I think we can do business with them.
HELL, we sucked up to Joe Stalin to defeat Nazism, I figure we can put up with Putin to defeat the Islamist threat. What’s the bigger threat to the US in the long run?
I vote Islamist terrorists…
“Well, the old saying is that the best place to defend your country is on the enemy’s own real estate.”
It is know in our own military jargon as “The Forward Defense”.
Excellent analysis, I would offer a couple small additions. Syria is an old Russian ally. They’ve had influence there for decades, and yes it does also allow them access to the Mediterranean. Moreover, it is a place were they can make themselves look important for the home audience, while at the same time being a burr under the saddle of those who oppose them, such as many in the US.
The Russians are master chess players, and chess is a game based on geopolitics. You’re absolutely correct that Putin, and most Russians in general, care about Russia proper. They have very long memories of invading hordes rolling across the plains of Eastern Europe and/or the steppes of western Asia. Therefore, they are constantly seeking to hold buffer territory, such as Ukraine, as a defense for Mother Russia.
Eon’s right, the current Russian strategy is all about protecting the Homeland from the likes of Obama, Osama and Otto.
Whatever it takes to undermine Trump. If that means getting millions killed, so be it.
The irony is that if it goes Nuclear the Blue Counties get wiped slick.
If my recent comments make it look like I’m in the tank for the Russkies…not. Because hey, they’re Russkies. And Pootie wants his empire back. Ungood.
But we have a common and critical enemy.
I believe the Donald can make a deal with them and talk Pootie down. And you don’t do that by partying down on New Year’s with a third-party target, goading them into military action, and telling them you’ve got their back.
Hard for me to say, but we might be lucky we got Zippy in ’08 because with McCan’t we might not have gotten to this point where we have another chance to save the world from the One True Nonreligion.
*…we have a common and critical enemy.* Regarding Sunni terror groups, yes, regarding Iran…it’s more complicated… http://web.stanford.edu/~amilani/downloads/CurrentHistory1.pdf
In less than three weeks I may have the satisfaction of having one over on the Progs in my Friday discussion group. I reminded them that the Iranians thumbed their noses at their hero Jimmy Carter by releasing the hostages to Reagan. Then I said the same sort of thing could happen again, this time the Iranians would thumb their noses at Obama by detonating a nuke on 20 Jan 2017.
The Progs laughed.
You know, once upon a time, the Demonrats would have welcomed a Russian invasion.
Apparently the Russians aren’t commie enough…
Putin isn’t butch enough for Democrats. They like their come overlords to threaten to bury us.
China is a far greater threat to the western countries than Russia. Yes, Russia remains a formidable power but at best a regional power.
China, by contrast, has taken over much of the world’s manufacturing, has massive trade advantages, manipulates their currency to everyone else’s disadvantages and continues to pressure all of their borders. China is putting economic tentacles into most western democracies. If China decides to start pulling some of the threads they’ve extended, they could collapse economies.
They can’t afford to collapse economies, especially ours. If you think 11% unemployment is bad in a country of 320 million, imagine 25% unemployment in a country of a billion plus people.
China has serious internal economic problems. Counting internal and external government and private debt, the most indebted nation, globally.
China has been methodically enabled, empowered and enriched these last eight years, and every issue you mention is market driven and right in DT’s wheelhouse.
The Taiwan thing was not a blunder, it was a strategic tweak. They decide to start pulling too many strings and one of them might end up being a bang switch.
Not downplaying your caveat; the point about the “other” western players is the wild card, but I do think they’ll follow the lead as they did with the cascade.
And do NOT underestimate that sleeping Russian bear.
Agreed. And also strongly agree that Putin’s actions are best seen through a Make Russia Great Again filter.
My biggest concern re China is that, historically, when faced with major internal economic problems many regimes look for a “controllable” external conflict as a solution/distraction. Though their actions in the South China Sea probably are a means of testing how far they can push the inaction of the West, I always feel like I’m missing something when I try to understand just what China is up to.
If Art Linkletter were still doing a show, he’d have to call it “Liberals Say the Darnest Things” – however rather than highlighting cute tykes’ unique expressions, this would feature the idiocy of the likes of chrissy tingles, rabid madcow, joey babbles, little timmy kain’t, der screecha beecha with its barking dog act and a supporting cast of millions drooling to “Kumbayah.”
That entire region can, at best, be described as, well, complicated.
Then it gets more complex.
And more complex.
When simplicity is needed.
Consider that Dem Senator Harry Ried has a son making huge money on a gas contract in the region. And that is an easily understandable situation in the area.
There also is a Catholic / Russian Orthodox split in the area. Ethnic Ukrainians and Ethnic Russians make up most of the people in Ukraine. One mainly in East Ukraine. The other mainly in West Ukraine. The last ~100 years have been in the bad sense, full of interesting events for the region.
And Democrats follow the Gruber requirement. Democrats are highly populated with those with tiny small minds that have often been invaded and conquered.
The demoncraps are simply unbelievable. How can anyone that stupid remember to breathe?
My two cents?
Having known many Russians, civilian and soldier, my impression is that we are much the same. We, as individuals, have much the same hopes, dreams, and desires.
The ordinary people of Russia and the USA would probably be the world’s best friends,* if the politicians and media would just get the hell out of the way.
*Minus the usual crowd of hate-fueled idiots on both sides, of course.
Two more cents. Israel has been full of Russians for over 10 years now. Have met and made many good friends there as well as Israeli Jews and some Moslums. As far as the Russians? Yes, we are very alike. In some ways more than with Israelis. Maybe the Israelis being in a small, always threatened country with attacks daily, anywhere.
It has been my observation that people have a lot more in common than they have differences, and even then it’s more a matter of perception and interpretation than real. The biggest of those “real” differences in the “East vs West” sphere is something that Vladimir Putin inadvertently pointed out himself. He once stated publicly that he believed “human rights” was merely a Western propaganda ploy.
Thanks to Communism the concept of the Sovereign Individual, upon which those rights are based, was practically destroyed in Communist territory.
The delicious irony of this is the rampant corruption that plagues those lands now can be blamed directly on the fact that they believe that Governments own the People an not the other way around.
So in the West we are highly motivated to establish and maintain the Rule of Law because we are greatly invested in our ownership of Government.
In the East it is simply a matter of Might Makes Right and there is a constant relentless pressure to Game the System by any and all means.
Notice the common theme throughout the comments?
That’s right. Money (aka power & commodities).
Follow the money. Always follow the money.
And who understands that better than anybody on the planet? The Trumpster. Feeling better all the time about that oddball, bombastic Pragmatic.
What is in the box(es) in the last panel, Chris?
Fuck if I know.Z didn’t volunteer it. 🙂
Folks, I have re-read the set of tales featuring Jerry Pournelle’s world-invention, “The CoDominium”, an agreement between USA, and Russia, to run the World, and to police many liveable outplanets. The weaseling around, happening nowadays including the cynical abandonment of a US Ambassador, in Libya, sure seems familiar… For folks not familiar with Jerry’s writing, below is an handy Site…
Great series, leading up to the “Mote in God’s Eye” and its sequels. I referenced the Co-Do and the present world situation in a comment on a story on Syria a few months ago. Both Superpowers are getting ready to drop the hammer, and the Muslims are going to be the ants.
If you want to see how things would be if the Max Quordlepleen-ish progressives ran things, read the Retief stories by Keith Laumer.
The Corps Diplomatique’ Terrestrienne’s motto:
Maintaining A State Of Tension Just Short Of War.
Their preferred method; pre-emptive surrender. In any crisis, the first thing Ambassador Magnan asked Earth Central was invariably: “Who do we want to defeat us here?”
Needless to say, the series’ hero, Jame Retief, had his own ideas on such subjects.
NB; Laumer spent fifteen years in the U.S. State Department before he began writing these stories.
He was almost the Len Deighton of SF, although Deighton did in fact write one SF novel of his own, SS-GB, about an SS officer investigating a murder in an alternate England in the 1970s after a Nazi victory in 1944.
I remember the names of the diplomats:
Longspoon and Sternwheeler.
Loved the Retief stories.
Supposedly our global aspiring controllers had agreed to transfer a dominant amount of manufacturing to China and military control to the west with the US as top dog.
The manufacturing has been transferred to Chna. China has recalled its empire and reasserted old ways and broke the military limitations and is growing its military control. Just look at its assertion of ownership over the South China Sea and that 9 lines concept.
But that may be fiction also. It fits. But I take it all in as fiction with confirmation or rejection coming later.
Then they moved on Bibi. they may move on Trump.
They do not want a Bibi, Putin, Trump agreement as to what is needed in the Middle East and elsewhere.
Putin has entered into an agreement to split Syria into three parts based on factual force controlling much of the ground. Syria had been moved in on by Sunnis in the past 60 years. Much of that is allotted to the Sunnis, which means Saudi backing. ISIS and other radicals will be there. The Kurds get the areas under Kurdish control. That is one reason why Turkey moved into a city and conquered it before the Kurds finished conquering it. The Shiite, Alowites, Christian, Yazhidi, Zoroastrians and others are in the main coastal area that had been the heart of Syria since it was carved out of the remains of the Ottoman Empire. Aleppo, one of the world’s oldest occupied cities, was the target of Russian and Syrian Army attack to control it before the agreement could be made. Much has been lost in this arrogant moving of people like chess pieces on the world stage. Other agendas and the crass use of basic Islam as used by ISIS to destroy so much is beyond forgiveness.
i spent an hour suggesting a break up of Iraq to Senator Bob Graham when he was on the Senate Foreign relations committe (He demanded the 9/11 28 pages be released) after the First Gulf War to achieve a similar result. I suggested a Shiite province, a Sunni province, a Kurdish province, and a central Federal province including Baghdad. Individual rights protected and details to be finalized. I, of course, never figured on the later genocidal motivations of many including Obama and Hillary, of activating basic Islam and its horrors. None of what I suggested happened anyway
Many democrat minds have been colonized by communism/socialism. Now they’re seeing that Putin is not advancing their beloved ideology and it’s not something they can process.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend? Be careful what you wish for. I do think that using Putin as a cats paw to stabilize the region is good. Long view for us is for the USSR to have a formidable toe in the region. The other players either sidle up to us or risk a take over by the USSR. Would kind of get alignments straightened out.
This time we charge for protection services instead of the other way around. Hold up Cuba as an example of how the other side will play your country. Point out Venezuela as the future promise of socialism. Played right with Putin we could make this last for a long time. The Chinese will feel left out but we could play this game in the far east too.
Bleed the little countries dry as they cower under the sabre rattling. First Islamo fascist entity steps out of line, light em up, burn me down, salt the earth. I doubt there will be a second for a long time.
I base this on the Mad Dog Mattis theory of “Don’t f with me and I’ll not f you up.”
War Damn Eagle
I’ve always wanted a bearskin rug in front of a fireplace.
Is it time for a bear hunt?
It has been said that Putin has a bearskin rug in his parlor. The bear is still alive, it is just too afraid to leave unless Putin tells him to go.
Buy one. Had one. Tough to keep clean.
Inadvertently ended up in a mutual hunt each other go-round many years ago.
Hunting bear is Not a good idea, literally or figuratively. You Must have a top line weapon. We no longer do, unless you mean nukes.
I’ve always wanted a bare-skin rug in front of a fireplace.
Is it time for a beaver hunt?
McLame, Limply Grahamnesty and the liberals all hot tubbing again. Back to business as usual with fake news supporting their lies of Russian hacking.
They will never give up. They will lie and deny, deny, deny, no matter what. They can do nothing else without instruction from those controlling them. they stick with their instructed program. They are team players. but not America’s team.
It will be interesting to see what happens here to get a sense of what may come:
Duterte is one of several wackjob demigods who think they want to play with the big boys, the loco noko is a notable other. What Putin does here might signal his intent on China.
I saw this headline and thought Sam and Naiomi had gone Coyote hunting again! (Although I don’t think they’d need that many rounds to clear the field, even with two in the head, one in the chest-and yes I mean it THAT way!)
Up to 30 Shots Fired In Squad-Sized Home Invasion In Texas
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