The time on the comments is still Eastern Daylight Time instead of Eastern Standard Time. My computer says it’s 11:49 p.m. on the 10th and the ‘Gunpowder Time Zone’ is one hour ahead, so I’m posting this in the 11th in toon time.
Remember the big panic over 1999-2000 ? A lot of people made a lot of money and nothing happened…I’m pretty sure the only reason we still have the DST change is a lot of people make a lot of money twice a year, otherwise it would have been dropped years ago to make the majority of people happy with the party that did it. Outside of the US, Canada, Europe and part of Australia, and not all areas there, a lot places never did it at all and many others have dropped it and that seems to work for them. What is it they keep blathering about ‘gun control’ ? ‘if it saves just one life…’
November 12, 2025 at 2:57 am
Henry
Not fair, OA. Nothing (world-ending) happened BECAUSE a lot of people did a lot of work and made all that money. Unlike most future disasters, it was easy to test for what was going to fail, find it, and fix it before it did. (Just change the computer’s clock, and run a copy of the software.) And we had enough warning and did the work correctly enough so that we didn’t miss nearly anything. But some things DID get missed… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2000_problem#Documented_errors
November 11, 2025 at 1:20 am
Man in the Middle
Having skin in the game is the key. Heinlein’s “Starship Troopers” similarly limited the franchise to those who had served their country. I’ve also read a suggestion to make tax-paying optional, but limiting the franchise to taxpayers.
Yep, skin in the game, along with a religious test for holding office, were BIG debates pre-ratification. Quote from a delegate’s notes: “Lest Turks, Jews, and Infidels find their way to High Places of Office.” (Turks being the moniker of the period for Muslims.)
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”
― Alexander Fraser Tytler 1803
and
“The barbarians are rising; they have a leader, and they’re uniting. Every society rests on a barbarian base. The people who don’t understand civilization, and wouldn’t like it if they did. The hitchhikers. The people who create nothing, and who don’t appreciate what others have created for them, and who think civilization is something that just exists and that all they need to do is enjoy what they can understand of it—luxuries, a high living standard, and easy work for high pay. Responsibilities? Phooey! What do they have a government for?”
-Otto Harkaman, Space Viking by H.Beam Piper, 1964
We are well into the “apathy” stage, slowly tipping over the edge. I dearly think God I will be with Him when that happens. It won’t be pretty. We are well armed, as are my offspring.
There is a great civilizational cycle that repeats:
1. Conditions are harsh, so strict gender roles for men and women exist by necessity of survival.
2. Civilization builds under these roles.
3. Achieve success and obtain excess survival resources. Starvation is no longer a threat.
4a. Question harsh roles, recognize you can’t free men because society rides on their backs.
4b. Eventually free women from the roles, because they’re women, we love them, and society supposedly doesn’t ride on women’s backs.
5. Ride on the successes obtained when both were in gender roles.
6. Women decline in quality because gender roles no longer constrain them.
7. Men wonder what they’re working so hard for and stop achieving as much.
8. Society declines.
9. Some emergency measures here by gov, more stick on men (e.g. bachelor tax).
10. Men completely check out from all stick no carrot.
11. Society collapses.
Rome, Babylon, Sparta, Vikings… so many more: this is the repeated pattern.
My hope is that between the internet allowing instant worldwide communication and all of western civ doing it at the same time, we can finally learn how to break this cycle. Women’s role in society is critically important, which is why we need them to keep doing it. Society rides on women’s backs as much as men’s, just not in the same way it rides on men’s backs.
Taxpayers should be the voting group.Those being taxed on income and/or wealth only. Sales tax, vehicle registration, etc. doesn’t count.
Military past and present of course
Government employee? Sorry, no, unless ex military.
Retirees on SS? If you worked to earn that check, then yes. If it’s not earned it does not count.
And, of course, all of the above MUST be citizens.
Did you once state you are/were LE in a supporting role and not sworn officer? Would that status apply?
And speaking of gov employee disqualification, we better stop and think what that includes and doesn’t include, lot of surprises/lack of recognition of what that actually means.
November 11, 2025 at 9:56 pm
eon
My status was strange. I was a CSI in a federally funded laboratory, but I was also an auxiliary deputy in two counties.
So I did patrol duty in addition to scene processing, I did have arrest authority, and I had a (Federal) badge.
It was the late Seventies and most of the Eighties.
Yes, it was a strange time in law enforcement.
cheers
eon
November 12, 2025 at 12:57 am
JTC
Yes sir, it’s the crime scene tech role I remembered.
As to gov employees I don’t think some realize just what all and who all that entails as many of them would be shocked and majorly pissed to lose agency.
November 11, 2025 at 10:48 am
Oldarmourer
I would add that when you decide you’re going to let the taxpayers support you, other than service or old age pensions, then you lose voting privileges as well, and ‘EBT’ cards be replaced with a box of staple goods or prepackaged meals, like MRE’s with no lobster or steak and no cash value.
I think we need to set about defining skin. Then we convene another Continental Congress, without RINOs and DNCrs,debate, and make it so. Then, the winter comes on, and those who haven’t skin in the game fade away.
We are breaking a lot of eggs right now, to make this Great Again Omelet. If the deportations can continue, and we can somehow get some sort of voter ID law in place, we will not be pushing the boulder up as big a hill. We might even have 15-20 years of extended movement in the Right direction. A great deal of good could happen. There is no real “winning” in this journey. Only keeping the Big Beautiful Country moving and not being taken over. I’d be happy if we can battle for another 20+ years. As I said, there is no real winning, only being in the game that counts.
My feelings tend the same direction. I’m a big fan of skin in the game as a prerequisite to voting. Prior to the 19th women could vote if they owned land. I care not skin color, gender, any of that crap, as long as you own land, are a veteran, or some form of a producer and not a taker. But I must add that it does seem Islam is not compatible with civilization. So some form of a religious test might need to be added. Citizenship is a privilege, just like voting. And all government leadership positions must be citizens. Bureaucrats can be whatever.
From my perspective, federal sales of high-tech at the higher levels. I can’t tell if America’s already dead, or dying, or perverting itself into some mutation…
But me myself and my 20 acres would happily secede and join with gunsmoke.
I did my twenty but I stopped going to Remembrance Day services some years ago. I remember those who went before on a constant basis and don’t need a once a year reminder to forget about for the rest of it. That and I’m getting too old to stand in the rain listening to a bunch of politicians make speeches they don’t mean a word of knowing full well that the very next day they’d vote to replace the Cenotaph statue of a white male with a more ‘inclusive’ one of anything but and cancel military pensions because everyone didn’t get one.
I quit drinking some 35 years ago but in about 15 minutes I’m going to pour one and drink it for those who can’t.
I’m surprised how many veterans have taken this position in recent years, mainly because of the long winded insincere speeches. The quality of politicians hasn’t improved, so to speak.
November 11, 2025 at 3:02 pm
Blasternaz
Well said! I usually take a few memento to the range, remember absent friends, and thank the Lord I’m still here. The fact that the day falls after mine and the Corps birthday is simply a bonus. USA, 64-67
November 11, 2025 at 10:39 am
Rolando
No dual citizenship allowed; one cannot serve two masters. Y’er either one or t’other. Don’t know when that BS started but I didn’t allow it back when I had that authority.
Skin in the game should also be required for naturalized citizenship.
But that’s just me.
I am not a veteran, but I damn sure appreciate all who are. So, those of you who have served, I personally thank you for giving a part of your life for this incredible country.
Morning!
Happy Veterans Day to those who have served, and are currently serving.
I’m a homeowner and a 40-hour-week taxpayer, so a small quibble over this discussion: I am also a .gov worker. I don’t get any tax break for being such. How can it be right for me to be denied the right to vote because of that .gov? Would you also deny me any of my other rights due to my status?
A small reminder – if the folks like me find ourselves so sorely aggrieved like that, you’d have to find somewhere to put your sewage, and drill for your own drinking water. We are you guys, not the enemy! I prefer being a part of you folks, not apart from.
Speaking of original ingredients, it’s worth noting when Col Harlan Sanders sold the American KFC franchises, he remained a salaried brand ambassador but he moved to Canada where he owned several franchises in & around Mississauga Ontario (close to Toronto) and he retained control of operations in Canada. In his later years, Sanders was very critical of cost saving changes made by the American franchises, saying it reduced the quality of the product.
Veterans Day is now called Remembrance Day in Canada; originally it was called Armistice Day like in the UK. On the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, many of us remember. Sadly, too many have forgotten.
Respect and Remembrance for Veterans on Veterans Day.
I’m totally checked out on our society. Nothing I can do about it except leave with a pile of brass. Our voting is wasted by both demonrats and repidiots that throw away our freedoms and money. We are exceedingly close to bend over and kiss your azz good bye.
38 Comments
“You, yes. Your group? No.”
And therein lies the skin in that game.
He’s for it, until he’s ag’in it.
Me too.
The time on the comments is still Eastern Daylight Time instead of Eastern Standard Time. My computer says it’s 11:49 p.m. on the 10th and the ‘Gunpowder Time Zone’ is one hour ahead, so I’m posting this in the 11th in toon time.
Yeah, that 1 hr changeup throws off the site.
Remember the big panic over 1999-2000 ? A lot of people made a lot of money and nothing happened…I’m pretty sure the only reason we still have the DST change is a lot of people make a lot of money twice a year, otherwise it would have been dropped years ago to make the majority of people happy with the party that did it. Outside of the US, Canada, Europe and part of Australia, and not all areas there, a lot places never did it at all and many others have dropped it and that seems to work for them. What is it they keep blathering about ‘gun control’ ? ‘if it saves just one life…’
Not fair, OA. Nothing (world-ending) happened BECAUSE a lot of people did a lot of work and made all that money. Unlike most future disasters, it was easy to test for what was going to fail, find it, and fix it before it did. (Just change the computer’s clock, and run a copy of the software.) And we had enough warning and did the work correctly enough so that we didn’t miss nearly anything. But some things DID get missed…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2000_problem#Documented_errors
Having skin in the game is the key. Heinlein’s “Starship Troopers” similarly limited the franchise to those who had served their country. I’ve also read a suggestion to make tax-paying optional, but limiting the franchise to taxpayers.
Yep, skin in the game, along with a religious test for holding office, were BIG debates pre-ratification. Quote from a delegate’s notes: “Lest Turks, Jews, and Infidels find their way to High Places of Office.” (Turks being the moniker of the period for Muslims.)
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”
― Alexander Fraser Tytler 1803
and
“The barbarians are rising; they have a leader, and they’re uniting. Every society rests on a barbarian base. The people who don’t understand civilization, and wouldn’t like it if they did. The hitchhikers. The people who create nothing, and who don’t appreciate what others have created for them, and who think civilization is something that just exists and that all they need to do is enjoy what they can understand of it—luxuries, a high living standard, and easy work for high pay. Responsibilities? Phooey! What do they have a government for?”
-Otto Harkaman, Space Viking by H.Beam Piper, 1964
clear ether
eon
We are well into the “apathy” stage, slowly tipping over the edge. I dearly think God I will be with Him when that happens. It won’t be pretty. We are well armed, as are my offspring.
*Thank God*
There is a great civilizational cycle that repeats:
1. Conditions are harsh, so strict gender roles for men and women exist by necessity of survival.
2. Civilization builds under these roles.
3. Achieve success and obtain excess survival resources. Starvation is no longer a threat.
4a. Question harsh roles, recognize you can’t free men because society rides on their backs.
4b. Eventually free women from the roles, because they’re women, we love them, and society supposedly doesn’t ride on women’s backs.
5. Ride on the successes obtained when both were in gender roles.
6. Women decline in quality because gender roles no longer constrain them.
7. Men wonder what they’re working so hard for and stop achieving as much.
8. Society declines.
9. Some emergency measures here by gov, more stick on men (e.g. bachelor tax).
10. Men completely check out from all stick no carrot.
11. Society collapses.
Rome, Babylon, Sparta, Vikings… so many more: this is the repeated pattern.
My hope is that between the internet allowing instant worldwide communication and all of western civ doing it at the same time, we can finally learn how to break this cycle. Women’s role in society is critically important, which is why we need them to keep doing it. Society rides on women’s backs as much as men’s, just not in the same way it rides on men’s backs.
THIS!
Taxpayers should be the voting group.Those being taxed on income and/or wealth only. Sales tax, vehicle registration, etc. doesn’t count.
Military past and present of course
Government employee? Sorry, no, unless ex military.
Retirees on SS? If you worked to earn that check, then yes. If it’s not earned it does not count.
And, of course, all of the above MUST be citizens.
Mostly agree, but under government employees include law enforcement.
Not all cops are also military veterans. I’m not, for one.
clear ether
eon
Did you once state you are/were LE in a supporting role and not sworn officer? Would that status apply?
And speaking of gov employee disqualification, we better stop and think what that includes and doesn’t include, lot of surprises/lack of recognition of what that actually means.
My status was strange. I was a CSI in a federally funded laboratory, but I was also an auxiliary deputy in two counties.
So I did patrol duty in addition to scene processing, I did have arrest authority, and I had a (Federal) badge.
It was the late Seventies and most of the Eighties.
Yes, it was a strange time in law enforcement.
cheers
eon
Yes sir, it’s the crime scene tech role I remembered.
As to gov employees I don’t think some realize just what all and who all that entails as many of them would be shocked and majorly pissed to lose agency.
I would add that when you decide you’re going to let the taxpayers support you, other than service or old age pensions, then you lose voting privileges as well, and ‘EBT’ cards be replaced with a box of staple goods or prepackaged meals, like MRE’s with no lobster or steak and no cash value.
I think we need to set about defining skin. Then we convene another Continental Congress, without RINOs and DNCrs,debate, and make it so. Then, the winter comes on, and those who haven’t skin in the game fade away.
We are breaking a lot of eggs right now, to make this Great Again Omelet. If the deportations can continue, and we can somehow get some sort of voter ID law in place, we will not be pushing the boulder up as big a hill. We might even have 15-20 years of extended movement in the Right direction. A great deal of good could happen. There is no real “winning” in this journey. Only keeping the Big Beautiful Country moving and not being taken over. I’d be happy if we can battle for another 20+ years. As I said, there is no real winning, only being in the game that counts.
Chris, any help you can give us with creating some T-1000’s to help with real security would be greatly appreciated!
Let me see what I can do.
Heh
He drew up the plans, implementatin is up to us.
Elon has lotsa spare time…
My feelings tend the same direction. I’m a big fan of skin in the game as a prerequisite to voting. Prior to the 19th women could vote if they owned land. I care not skin color, gender, any of that crap, as long as you own land, are a veteran, or some form of a producer and not a taker. But I must add that it does seem Islam is not compatible with civilization. So some form of a religious test might need to be added. Citizenship is a privilege, just like voting. And all government leadership positions must be citizens. Bureaucrats can be whatever.
From my perspective, federal sales of high-tech at the higher levels. I can’t tell if America’s already dead, or dying, or perverting itself into some mutation…
But me myself and my 20 acres would happily secede and join with gunsmoke.
They are my kind of people.
Gunpowder! I meant Gunpowder but my traitor’s mouth spoke gunsmoke…
I hope they still accept my application to join.
Well nobody else said it, so ‘Happy
Veterans Day’ to all us Veterans.
Yep. Eleventh hour, eleventh day, eleventh month”. And then some. Dad was a Doughboy; served in France,
America’s existence is your legacy-and we will regain it all.
I did my twenty but I stopped going to Remembrance Day services some years ago. I remember those who went before on a constant basis and don’t need a once a year reminder to forget about for the rest of it. That and I’m getting too old to stand in the rain listening to a bunch of politicians make speeches they don’t mean a word of knowing full well that the very next day they’d vote to replace the Cenotaph statue of a white male with a more ‘inclusive’ one of anything but and cancel military pensions because everyone didn’t get one.
I quit drinking some 35 years ago but in about 15 minutes I’m going to pour one and drink it for those who can’t.
I’m surprised how many veterans have taken this position in recent years, mainly because of the long winded insincere speeches. The quality of politicians hasn’t improved, so to speak.
Well said! I usually take a few memento to the range, remember absent friends, and thank the Lord I’m still here. The fact that the day falls after mine and the Corps birthday is simply a bonus. USA, 64-67
No dual citizenship allowed; one cannot serve two masters. Y’er either one or t’other. Don’t know when that BS started but I didn’t allow it back when I had that authority.
Skin in the game should also be required for naturalized citizenship.
But that’s just me.
I am not a veteran, but I damn sure appreciate all who are. So, those of you who have served, I personally thank you for giving a part of your life for this incredible country.
Morning!
Happy Veterans Day to those who have served, and are currently serving.
I’m a homeowner and a 40-hour-week taxpayer, so a small quibble over this discussion: I am also a .gov worker. I don’t get any tax break for being such. How can it be right for me to be denied the right to vote because of that .gov? Would you also deny me any of my other rights due to my status?
A small reminder – if the folks like me find ourselves so sorely aggrieved like that, you’d have to find somewhere to put your sewage, and drill for your own drinking water. We are you guys, not the enemy! I prefer being a part of you folks, not apart from.
Problem is that .gov employees would get to pick their boss……
Speaking of original ingredients, it’s worth noting when Col Harlan Sanders sold the American KFC franchises, he remained a salaried brand ambassador but he moved to Canada where he owned several franchises in & around Mississauga Ontario (close to Toronto) and he retained control of operations in Canada. In his later years, Sanders was very critical of cost saving changes made by the American franchises, saying it reduced the quality of the product.
Veterans Day is now called Remembrance Day in Canada; originally it was called Armistice Day like in the UK. On the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, many of us remember. Sadly, too many have forgotten.
Respect and Remembrance for Veterans on Veterans Day.
I’m totally checked out on our society. Nothing I can do about it except leave with a pile of brass. Our voting is wasted by both demonrats and repidiots that throw away our freedoms and money. We are exceedingly close to bend over and kiss your azz good bye.