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59 Comments

  • May 24, 2015 at 8:12 pm
    Grunt GI

    WOOHOOO…a little 16″ luv right downtown
    Awesome idea.

    Go Navy indeed.

  • May 24, 2015 at 8:39 pm
    BlaxPac

    :sigh: I miss the old Battle-Wagons.

    NOTHING said “The U.S. is here, say your f**king prayers” than having a VW Bug-sized Can of High-Explosive Whoop-Azz being REPEATEDLY thrown at you.

    Unless you count the SEALS, Force Recon and as many armed Marines we can put on your doorstep and in your nightmares.

    Well, not as much as we used to, because of…well, you know.

    Is it 2018 yet?

    • May 25, 2015 at 12:03 am
      pyrodice

      Frankly, the Marines best use WAS making sure those big guns were able to lug all the hurt for them, without them having to hump it over hill and dale. “So, uh, can you deliver our gear to the following address?”
      …yup.

  • May 24, 2015 at 8:51 pm
    Dienekes

    No collateral damage from overs or unders, either. It’s all good.

  • May 24, 2015 at 10:19 pm
    JTC

    Sorry boys, you’ll have to bombard that thieving muzzie pirate another place, another time…he’s out getting ice cream right now, probably planning a round of golf tomorrow.

  • May 24, 2015 at 10:42 pm
    silvergreycat

    Chris,

    No battleships listed on Navy’s ship list… http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ships/battleships/bb-list.asp

    Nearest available battleships (now on museum duty):

    New Jersey… http://www.battleshipnewjersey.org/

    North Carolina… http://www.battleshipnc.com/

    • May 25, 2015 at 12:04 am
      pyrodice

      Mighty Mo could still be turned over with a few weeks of maintenance, I suspect.

    • May 25, 2015 at 3:23 am
      Calvin

      The Wisconsin is in Norfolk at this moment and that is a short hop away from DC (it only has to get within 21 miles)

  • May 24, 2015 at 11:34 pm
    interventor

    Admiral Yamamoto said a battleship was as useful as a daisho.

    • May 25, 2015 at 11:05 pm
      John Greer

      If they can close on a target they are absolute murder.
      Their biggest contribution during WWII was in reducing fixed fortifications.

  • May 24, 2015 at 11:39 pm
    Indiana Mike

    Wouldn’t 250-300 rounds of 16″ High Explosive in DC pretty much solve the problem?

  • May 24, 2015 at 11:42 pm
    AMRoberts

    I believe the Wisconsin (BB64) is on museum duty at Norfolk, isn’t it?

    • May 24, 2015 at 11:52 pm
      Chris Muir

      I visited it last year.Awesome.

      • May 25, 2015 at 8:56 am
        Mike V

        My Dad served on the Wisconsin during Korea. He told me more than once it was the best time of his life. I took him to visit her before he passes. He looked at her like I had only ever seen him look at one person, my Mom.

  • May 25, 2015 at 12:04 am
    LifeofTheMind

    A useful law for Congress to pass would be to build a dozen nuclear powered ships equipped with the new rail-guns, armored to survive damage from all current conventional anti-ship missiles, to be designated as BBs and to be, along with SSBNs, exclusively named after states.

  • May 25, 2015 at 12:22 am
    capn

    I put in my time as a boilerman for the canoe club so If they need someone to fire those mothers up just gimme a call.
    The primary problem is the depth of the river versus the draft of the battlewagon. Varied depths from over 40 to under 12 versus 36 feet draft.(for Ohio class battlewagons)
    Even the Chesapeake Bay is fairly shallow for the most part.

    We may need a different tool for the Navy to use. A smaller lighter vessel perhaps? There used to be several Burke Class Destroyers in Shi … er uhm … Norfolk. I was stationed on one of them for a time.

  • May 25, 2015 at 12:31 am
    capn

    Chris,

    The Navy was created to defend (sorta) the coastal shipping from them nasty Brits.
    Our first foreign operation that didn’t involve the Brits was indeed the Barbary Coast and the Pirates thereof. (present day Morocco, Algeria and Libya)

    They had developed a slave generation program and kidnapping organization that used merchant sailors from all nations. We were the Navy that stopped it for them.

    ” to the shores of Tripoli.” in the Marine Hymn refers to exactly that “operation”.

    stay safe,

    capn

    • May 25, 2015 at 2:22 am

      Precisely. And the Barbary Pirates are a bit closer to home, nicht wahr?

      • May 25, 2015 at 4:22 pm
        Ming the Merciless

        The cowardise of the European powers for the Barbary pirates is incredible.
        They had been enslaving large numbers of Europeans for centuries, Brits and French had huge navies, yet they paid enormous ransoms all the time…It is true that the muslims’ galley fleet was formidable, powered as it was by Christian slaves sitting in their own feces up to their armpit for their short hellish life… and often commanded by Christian renegates…During the middle ages, all European coasts were deserted for thirty miles due to the muslim Barbaresques’ slave taking…fly low over Italy and all medieval towns were built on mountain crests to escape the muslim slave takers…Cassius Clay/Ali
        famously said that hid family chance was to have been sold to Americans…What about claiming compensation to the Muslims for the millions of Europeans that got raped, tortured and were worked to death by the muslims as slaves? They were so numerous as being worth less than an onion as North African arabs bragged!

      • May 25, 2015 at 9:27 pm
        markm

        Starting with the English in 1630, those European powers that had sufficient sea and land power did force the Barbary states to sign treaties and stop raiding their own people and ships, but they left them free to raid other Europeans. The situation was complex:

        1. The English, etc., had learned that all such agreements were temporary. You had to send the Navy with a landing force to do it again several times a century – or maybe more often if they especially hated you. . That was not a big problem for the English, but for lesser powers, putting together a big enough fleet to fight it’s way through was difficult.

        2. They’d also seek to use the Barbary and other pirates against their enemies. In the Dutch war of independence, Dutch privateers were actually based in Barbary ports, going on raids against Spanish ships and coasts side by side with Muslim slave galleys. (This problem wasn’t unique to the Barbary pirates. Most of the pirates of the Caribbean were former privateers, and would repeatedly switch between privateering and piracy as war and peace occurred. The “golden age” of Caribbean piracy was an era when most peaces were so short that pirates captured by their country of origin and due to be hanged were usually released when another war broke out while the colonial authorities were waiting for bureaucrats back home to sign off on the death warrants. Even the US played that game; Pierre Lafitte and other pirates from the Lafitte fleet were released in exchange for his brother Jean contributing cannon and crews to the defense of New Orleans.)

        3. The Barbary states were officially part of the Turkish Empire, which was the dominant naval force in the Mediterranean until the Battle of Lepanto (1571), and still a force to be reckoned with afterwards. So any nation with major interests in the Mediterranean would be careful to keep whatever they did to the Barbary coast low key enough that a Sultan 2,000 miles away would ignore it. OTOH, the USA didn’t have much of a problem with angering the Sultan – his galleys certainly weren’t going to cross the Atlantic, so the worst that could have happened would have been to have the Med trade blocked to our ships by “navy” galleys rather than “pirates”. Apparently by 1795 the Turkish Empire had grown to weak to react that way, but I don’t think anyone realized it yet.

        4. When the British and French realized how weak the Turks had become, that was considered a problem, not an opportunity. They needed Turkey to counterbalance Russia. In the 1830’s, they even sent troops to Crimea to defend this Turkish possession against a Russian invasion. For the Brits, Russia was a threat to their gradual conquest of India, so they propped up the Turks to both tie up Russian forces and prevent the Russians from gaining a land route to the Hindu Kush. (But all these alliances reversed after 1871 when the Prussians revealed themselves as Europe’s greatest power. There was just one consistency in English policy from Henry V up to WWII – they always sought to trim back the greatest continental power, French, Spanish/Hapsburg/Austrian, or German.)

  • May 25, 2015 at 12:37 am
    Pete231

    Check out this book by Ian W. Toll : Six Frigates-The Epic History of the Founding of the U.S.Navy. Amazing story of the early days of wooden ships and iron men. Quakers(!) built the first frigates from live oak trees of specific shapes and contours to form the frameworks of the hulls. These were harvested in the swamps of the Carolinas (not a job for the faint-hearted). Once finished, these were formidable ships of the line. The hulls were next to impervious to the effects of the British cannon fire due to the flexible resiliency of the oaken structure. “Old Ironsides” is the last of the line. She’s is dry dock now for a major overhaul and is still listed on the Navy records as an active vessel of the USN. So, the next time you meet a Quaker, smile and shake his hand.

    • May 25, 2015 at 9:36 am
      Chris Muir

      Got that book.Amazing, U.S. history, its real history.Too bad it’s not taught anymore….

  • May 25, 2015 at 1:51 am

    The Iowa, BB61, is in San Pedro.

    The New Jersey, BB62, is in Camden.

    The Missouri, BB63, is in Pearl Harbor.

    The Wisconsin, BB64, is in Norfolk.

    It normally takes 24 hours from cold iron to get underway. It would probably take six months to get the best one (I don’t know which one it is) of the Iowa class ships underway again.

    But I sure would love to get a ride on one of them steaming along at thirty knots!

    • May 25, 2015 at 5:08 pm
      capn

      The Texas, BB 35, is in Houston, Texas.
      She is now a museum alongside the Houston Ship Channel.

  • May 25, 2015 at 3:30 am
    Leo AutoDidact

    There’s a LOVELY Scene in the Movie “The Wind and The Lion” where US Marines (During the Teddy Roosevelt administration) storm the Moroccan Emir’s Palace to demand the return of a kidnapped American Businessman’s Wife (Played by Candice Bergen) He looks over the devastation, Dead soldiers and servants everywhere, and informs the Marine Lt. “Your President myst be crazy.” Whereupon the Lt. simply smiles and says “Yes, Sir.”

    I don’t want the Jihadis to “Respect” us, I want them to be “wetting their Beds” AFRAID of US! I want them to be in constant teror of doing something that might make us notice and SQUASH them!

    It’s COCKAROACH STOMPING TIME!

    • May 25, 2015 at 5:37 am
      Master Diver

      I love Roosevelt’s line about the U.S. relationship with other nations: “The world will never love us. They respect us – they might even grow to fear us. But they will never love us, for we have too much audacity! And, we’re a bit blind and reckless at times too. ”

      America accomplished more in three lifetimes than all of Europe in 3000 years, and now Obozo is throwing it all away!

      • May 25, 2015 at 6:51 am
        eon

        One of my favorite movies. And here’s the full quote;

        Theodore Roosevelt: The American grizzly is a symbol of the American character: strength, intelligence, ferocity. Maybe a little blind and reckless at times… but courageous beyond all doubt. And one other trait that goes with all previous.

        2nd Reporter: And that, Mr. President?

        Theodore Roosevelt: Loneliness. The American grizzly lives out his life alone. Indomitable, unconquered – but always alone. He has no real allies, only enemies, but none of them as great as he.

        2nd Reporter: And you feel this might be an American trait?

        Theodore Roosevelt: Certainly. The world will never love us. They respect us – they might even grow to fear us. But they will never love us, for we have too much audacity! And, we’re a bit blind and reckless at times too.

        2nd Reporter: Are you perhaps referring to the situation in Morocco and the Panama Canal.

        Theodore Roosevelt: If you say so… The American grizzly embodies the spirit of America. He should be our symbol! Not that ridiculous eagle – he’s nothing more than a dandified vulture.

        And an insightful observation from the “adverse party”;

        Raisuli: To Theodore Roosevelt – you are like the Wind and I like the Lion. You form the Tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the Ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you, like the wind, will never know yours. – Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers.

        We are by nature wanderers, explorers, and yes, sometimes conquerors. We seek to expand the frontiers of what is known. And we stand on the battlements of civilization, facing outward into the darkness. To be the defenders of that civilization.

        That is what it is to be a “true American”.

        That is why we shall always be alone. And why, as TR said, others may
        respect us, or fear us, but they will never love us. And few of them will ever understand us.

        Just a thought.

        Happy Memorial Day.

        eon

      • May 25, 2015 at 11:18 pm
        Tim
      • May 25, 2015 at 10:30 am
        Indiana Mike

        Obama is doing battle space preparation for moslem rule. Uhh, it will turn out differently from what he desires or expects.

    • May 25, 2015 at 10:26 am
      Indiana Mike

      That line was delivered with the perfect amount of self assured arrogance and rigteous challenge to the authority of a tyrant. The actor was Steve Canaly, I think. He was in a few movies by the great John Milius.

  • May 25, 2015 at 4:50 am
    redc1c4

    Sounds like a j*b for the Showboat!

  • May 25, 2015 at 5:49 am
    Bill G

    “Anchor’s aweigh, my boys, anchor’s aweigh…”

  • May 25, 2015 at 7:00 am
    RayNAiken

    Need any help paddling that ship upstream?

  • May 25, 2015 at 7:02 am
    the_frumious_bandersnatch

    Pyrodice, I’ve been working in marine enginerooms for 35 years. It would take a LOT more than a few weeks of turning wrenches to get one of the BBs going with its own machinery.
    Haxo Angmark, the RMI has mutual defense treaties with the US. The MI registry office is located in northern Virginia and run by a retired USCG captain. To say that it has “nil to do…” is not accurate. I’ve worked on board a few MI-flagged vessels. Their marine surveyors do a better job than the USCG and their maritime regulations are more common-sense than ours. There are several Marshall Islands flagged vessels crewed by American officers, usually with Filipino unlicensed. MI is the de facto American “second registry” for merchant ships. Someone must have deleted a post; which vessel in particular are you discussing? When you say that the US does not have a merchant fleet, you are ignoring our inland tonnage – which is one of the largest such fleets in the world. (I currently work aboard a US-flagged deep-sea merchant ship.) Just about every shipyard on the Gulf Coast is busy building vessels for both the US and other countries.
    “Israel mob” – paranoia/conspiracy much?

    • May 25, 2015 at 9:04 am
      Mike V

      In 2000 when I took my Dad to tour Wisconsin, they told us she could be ready for sea in 30 days. That might be optimistic, finding crew with experience on her vs training from scratch would be an issue now and I wonder how many 16″ shells and powder are still in inventory.

      • May 25, 2015 at 10:34 am
        Indiana Mike

        There are thousands of 16″shells and powder for them in storage at Crane Surface Warfare Center in Indiana the last time I heard.

      • May 25, 2015 at 11:20 pm
        KenH

        Biggest problem is there is no “gun club” left with the trade-school and hands on knowledge needed to man them. That, was one primary reason for the Iowa accident – no real Gunners Mate’s around who really knew what the hell they were doing

    • May 25, 2015 at 9:39 am
      Chris Muir

      Haxo’s a troll.No feed him.

    • May 25, 2015 at 1:38 pm
      B Woodman

      DAMNED!! Did I miss an appearance from the “concerned troll”??
      Sorry, my Lady Pamela, I was asleep at the gates, I did not hold “him?” for you to take a shot at.

  • May 25, 2015 at 7:42 am
    Harry

    Ah, yes…the memories…A LOOONG time ago, as a very junior squid, I served in gun plot of a gun cruiser, on the sound powered phones talking with the turret captains. During a WestPac cruise, when we rearranged some beautiful tropical foliage in support of the Marines (and anyone else who needed it–and those ARVN rangers were GOOOOD!!!) I well remember the Gun Boss pointing at me and saying “Light’em up!” Then I would key my mike and start the chant: “All turrets, gun plot. Batteries free, guns free, by salvo, rapid, continuous, commence, commence, com” BOOOM!!
    If you needed us, I am sure some old FTG’s would be ready to man the directors and gun plot analog computers.

  • May 25, 2015 at 9:40 am
    Ray Van Dune

    Obama or Michelle would love 16 inches of such attention, until they realized that it wasn’t from Reggie.

    • May 25, 2015 at 1:39 pm
      B Woodman

      I’m sure even Valerie is more “man” and can display more manhood (ahem) than Obozo.

  • May 25, 2015 at 10:55 am
    Iconoclast

    Realistically, too much explosive & too imprecise a munition, however the concept is commendable and, from my perspective, “if only!” Perhaps it would be more appropriate to use these shells on a groundhog at Andrews when it is closed to all ‘lesser mortals,’ given that meteorite and lightening strikes have been vividly absent from their priority mission?

  • May 25, 2015 at 11:52 am
    Pamela

    To all who served and are serving, saying Thank you is not enough for your sacrifices on behalf of this Nation.

  • May 25, 2015 at 1:36 pm
    steveb919

    It is a shame that the old battle wagons are not still on active duty. In my opinion nothing says power like 16 inch guns pointing down your throat. Have a great Memorial Day Americans. Remember those who served and those that gave the ultimate sacrifice.

    • May 25, 2015 at 4:47 pm
      capn

      steveb919

      The problem is that the new munitions make the old battlewagons sitting targets. There are cruise missles and others that can defeat 16 FEET of reinforced concrete and still deliver hundreds of pounds of tnt to the target.

      The old battlewagons were and are impressive to say the very least but we have graduated from swords and shields to nvg’s and AR platform rifles for many very valid reasons.
      The primary one being to follow the directions of General George Patton. I paraphrase: “We are not here to die for our country we are here to make the other guy die for his country.”
      Overwhelming Force has been the game changer since clubs and rocks were the battle tools of choice.

      All of the above does not in any way mean that I do not respect and admire the Grand old Ladies of the Line.
      The newer faster lighter ships of the line will fill the void I am certain BUT the Grand old Gals really are an awesome emblem of our sea power especially face to face. Stand on the fore deck of one of them for the full effect of their size and power.

      Remember the fallen

  • May 25, 2015 at 3:16 pm
    A true SOB

    To all that have Served, Thank You! To all that have or had family members that serve or have served, thank You! To any that have lost loved ones while serving, Bless you and thank you for your families sacrifice

  • May 25, 2015 at 6:42 pm
    silvergreycat

    Chris,

    My mistake…

    Wisconsin… http://www.nauticus.org/exhibits/battleship-wisconsin

  • May 25, 2015 at 6:49 pm
    silvergreycat

    Master Diver and eon

    The Grizzly Bear clip…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rRgx3hRwK4

  • May 25, 2015 at 7:02 pm
    silvergreycat

    Leo AutoDidact,

    Marines attack the palace
    !:03-1:11 (approximate time; sound poor)… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vtuUgwZs7Q

    • May 25, 2015 at 10:09 pm
      Leo AutoDidact

      Dear Silvergreycat,

      Thanks for the Link, I wasn’t aware that it was on YouTube!

      (Had a VHS copy of it years ago, but it got lost over the course of several cross-country moves. Hello, Old Friend!)

      Leo AutoDidact

      • May 25, 2015 at 10:58 pm
        silvergreycat

        Leo AutoDidact,

        *Thanks for the Link*…You’re welcome.

        *I wasn’t aware that it was on YouTube!* Found another version with better sound but the picture’s not as good… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv0WtPi8BXc

  • May 25, 2015 at 10:07 pm
    Bill

    Check out The 300 Spartans on Netflix. Not as “cool” as The 300, but great story.

    • May 25, 2015 at 10:16 pm
      Leo AutoDidact

      Dear Bill,

      According to an interview I saw a while back, it was Artist Frank Miller’s memories of watching “The 300 Spartans” that inspired him to do the comic book “300” which became the Movie “300”

      While, as a Communalistic Slave-dependent Military Dictatorship, The Spartans are hardly exemplars of what WE mean by “a Free People” they were a bit better than the semi-divine rule enforced by the Persian Tyrants.

      There might not be much of a difference between “Good and Bad” but there will ALWAYS be a clear difference between “Bad and WORSE!”

  • May 25, 2015 at 10:27 pm
    Captain Ned

    Seems like our host remembers his old Clive Cussler novels, particularly “Vixen 03”.

  • May 25, 2015 at 11:34 pm
    Dienekes

    Saw the New Jersey come out of the fog on the Columbia River about 25 years ago. Talk about a sight that put shivers up your spine!

    The memory of a lifetime.

  • May 25, 2015 at 11:47 pm
    Swansonic

    I paid respects yesterday to some of my relatives who have passed on – a very moving weekend at Fort Snelling in Minnesota. As I said then

    Dear Lord,

    Thank you for these men and women that have served. Please keep them in your care give those who remain strength to carry on.

    Amen

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